Hello, I am experiencing the same problems with my backup of the game. Now I have the retail version of the game but I can not login in. Does the DNAS check for modchip? Does it check for a backup? Does it check for the IP address of the banned pS2? I just need some clarification.

Sony does not ban IPs. the DNAS does NOT check for a modchip. Your connection isnt working right, or your login is incorrect!

are you sure redherring cause if you check my thread "Aww man Ncaa dvd backup wont work online"
others replied pretty sure that the dnas checks the disc so you wil not be able to play online unless retail

DNAS checks the authenticity of your disk!

Originally posted by RedHerring24
Sony does not ban IPs. the DNAS does NOT check for a modchip. Your connection isnt working right, or your login is incorrect!

Sony doesnt ban ips but the dnas from that game does keep you from playing a backup or original online with a chip activated

That's not 100% correct. I can play just fine with my retail copy of NCAA 2004 and my Messiah 2 v1.2 active. It is correct that EA's servers are checking your game disk for authentication code contained in the boot sector. No match, no login.

What kind of chip are you using? There seem to be lots of folks that have no trouble logging in with retail game disks and active modchips but also lots that can't login either way. I'm guessing that some brands of chips cause hiccups in the bus that don't allow the DNAS check to function properly...then again who knows..haha

I am using a Messiah 1.3 chip

Originally posted by bebrewer
That's not 100% correct. I can play just fine with my retail copy of NCAA 2004 and my Messiah 2 v1.2 active. It is correct that EA's servers are checking your game disk for authentication code contained in the boot sector. No match, no login.

What kind of chip are you using? There seem to be lots of folks that have no trouble logging in with retail game disks and active modchips but also lots that can't login either way. I'm guessing that some brands of chips cause hiccups in the bus that don't allow the DNAS check to function properly...then again who knows..haha

well I have not played this game yet personally myself but I knew how dnas worked for everquest.

For everquest (at different times) DNAS would not only check for game authentification but it also would check the bios. So if you booted with an original or backup with an activated chip you would get the -402 error message.

Since it was a sony game and sony came up with the protection they implemented different scemes to see how well it would work.

ncaa is an EA that doesnt use a paid server but they use dnas and apparently ea doesnt need to prevent people from playing the original with a chip since they still make money when you buy the games so they dont have to check for chips.

i have rented it and I will test it out also.

Lesson I have learned is that sony is can play around with this dnas to see what our reactions is
so they can change these around whenever they want to keep us on our toes

Originally posted by ps2daddy
well I have not played this game yet personally myself but I knew how dnas worked for everquest.

For everquest (at different times) DNAS would not only check for game authentification but it also would check the bios. So if you booted with an original or backup with an activated chip you would get the -402 error message.

Since it was a sony game and sony came up with the protection they implemented different scemes to see how well it would work.

ncaa is an EA that doesnt use a paid server but they use dnas and apparently ea doesnt need to prevent people from playing the original with a chip since they still make money when you buy the games so they dont have to check for chips.

i have rented it and I will test it out also.

Lesson I have learned is that sony is can play around with this dnas to see what our reactions is
so they can change these around whenever they want to keep us on our toes

Update: the ncaa 2004 worked fine for me also using an original I have a messiah 2 ver 1.30 in a version 7 ps2

Originally posted by ps2daddy

For everquest (at different times) DNAS would not only check for game authentification but it also would check the bios. So if you booted with an original or backup with an activated chip you would get the -402 error message.

Since it was a sony game and sony came up with the protection they implemented different scemes to see how well it would work.



good info, i remain hopeful that folks with modded PS2's will still be able to play online with retail game disks and their mods in 'sleep or disabled' modes (a la Xbox Live).

I have the original and it won't let it online. I play Madden 2003's backup and original online fine. But they check for a mod now.

Originally posted by ic99fly
I have the original and it won't let it online. I play Madden 2003's backup and original online fine. But they check for a mod now.

The original NCAA 2004 still works great for me online I just got finished logging on and typing messages.

What chip and version ps2 do you have?
Did you get a -402 message?

Sounds like there checking Disks, and not chips right now.

By the way this is not my (KAZAK) post it was taken from another site, but the next couple of replies are mine.

My experiments w/ online and DNAS error (NCAA 2004)
OK my setup: Ver 7 NTSC w/online pack. Installed Messiah 2 pro, ver 1.3(?)...rented NCAA from B-Buster and made a "temporary" copy ( ) for testing purposes that will be destroyed immediately, since I don't OWN the original.

Copy works flawlessly until I try to go online...I get the dreaded DNAS error.

(1) If I boot w/ the original and swap disc to put the copy in before trying to get online, I get the DNAS error.

(2) If I boot with copy, and then swap disc to put in the original BEFORE trying to get online, Everything works great!

(3) If Boot w/ copy, swap w/ original before getting online, then swap again to the copy once I'm logged into the EA servers, everything works great!

(4) If Boot w/ original and then swap to the copy once I'm logged into the EA servers, everything works great!

I then installed a switch between the 3.5V power supply to the Messiah that will disable the chip when the switch is in the "off" position and repeated everything in both switch-on and switch-off position....everything was exactly the same except:

(a) The copy could not be booted when the switch was in the off position.




Conclusion:

(I) DNAS (for NCAA 2004) appears to look for the original PRIOR to allowing access to the EA servers. After you're logged in, there appears to be no more checks.

(II)DNAS (for NCAA 2004) does not appear to be affected by the presence of mod-chip in the PS2 (ie the Mod chip does not ban you from the servers...its the copied disc that ban ya!)

(III) A work-around to this method of DNAS may involve a simple patch!!!

Hope this is helpful to those that develop the work-arounds so that we can continue to enjoy having backups of our games that we ALL purchase!!!


__________________
"Let's Stick it to the MAN!!!"


Last edited by wderbi on 07-21-2003 at 10:01 AM

Here is some more info for anyone trying to figure out how to patch NCAA 2004. I have a no-swap mod and tried the booting procedures listed above. I had all the same results as above using the Gameshark double swap method, except for boot method #2 (booting with a copy and then swapping with original before going online). With Gameshark I used Devil May Cry Demo and then swapped to copy. Startup worked fine but when I swapped this with original to go online, DNAS fails. I also tried Swap Magic method with the same results.

I then tried the Gameshark Swap using the original NCAA game as the first Disc and then booted with the copy. I then swapped the original back in before going online. No problems, DNAS succeeded.

In my opinion this is telling me that not only does the DNAS check code on the original game at time of going online, but also matches either: the EXACT Table of Content size of the game used at bootup or that the game code used at bootup matches the game code when attempting to go online, which is why Swap Magic and Devil May Cry Demo discs will not even allow original to be swapped back in before going online. I guess to find out whether it is code or TOC that is being checked at bootup, someone could possibly try using a another game that has a TOC 2.45GB in size to match the size of NCAA.

Also to tell if each Original NCAA disc has its own code maybe someone who has access to 2 original NCAA games can boot with one, then swap in the other before going online. If DNAS passes then the same code is used on each disc. If not that means each game also has its own individual code, another problem.

Unfortunately that is about as much help as I can be as I have no knowledge of how to pull the code checked off the original , or how to create a patch for it. Maybe these suggestions ccould help someone with that knowlege. I believe if the code can be found that the DNAS is checking for, then some genius out ther can create a patch for it to trick it into believing that both checks match. If not the future of backups looks dreary. Hope I was helpful to someone.


Last edited by KAZAK on 07-22-2003 at 12:40 AM

Ok in follow-up to some info in previos posted. I just tested the Game Shark boot method using Chessmaster original which is 3.45GB TOC as first disc. Then booted with backup, and then switched to original NCAA before going online. To my surprise, DNAS passed. I think DNAS only checks at startup to make sure the TOC used at bootup is not the standard 4.37GB discs used by most swappers, which in my opinion is excelent news. This means that if someone can figure out how to confuse the DNAS when going online that it has the original cd game code, then you would just need any game such as Chessmaster with a smaller TOC then 4.37GB to boot your backup with. This also makes me highly doubt that each game has individual code which hopefully could make creating a patch easier for someone to figure out.

Yes, the backup will start the game, and play offline, but when trying to go online the DNAS still fails. So at that point is when I believe it is checking for code on the original that is not burned onto the copy. My copy was made with Recordnow doing an exact disc to disc copy, so the code must be on an unwritable area of the disc, or it is telling the Ps2 at this point just to to a DVD check and verify it is an original and not a copy. I am leaning towards that opinion. Possibly someone with DVD Check removal experience from ripping DVD games could figure out if it is a DVD check being used, at what point, and Patch It. Then as long as you swap boot with a game lower than 4.37 TOC I think you are good to go online. I am starting to get the feeling we can do this guys. Maybe someone with DVD check ripping experience can jump in here, because I know once you get past the DNAS check and get online, you can swap the backup back in, so there are no more checks after that.

That is really good work and test I have to give you props on that one

I would like to add a few other points

"(I) DNAS (for NCAA 2004) appears to look for the original PRIOR to allowing access to the EA servers. After you're logged in, there appears to be no more checks. "

I agree 100%

The only problem I see is that from the server side in future games it might be a possibility
for them to implement a authenticity scex/region check at any random time they feel like doing (ex loading up a level of a game or after completing a mission or possibly during actual gameplay)

"(II)DNAS (for NCAA 2004) does not appear to be affected by the presence of mod-chip in the PS2 (ie the Mod chip does not ban you from the servers...its the copied disc that ban ya!)"

With everquest people that had messiah 2s and DMS3 got the -402 with an original disk when the chip was activated but they were fine when they logged on with the chip disabled.

Not an expert but they are checking a something with the bios for certain signals and if it doesnt get the exact answer that it expect you get the dreaded -402

But just like you I have never had any problem logging on and playing NCAA 2004 with my messiah 2 using an original.

"(III) A work-around to this method of DNAS may involve a simple patch!!!"

This could very well be the truth if they dont send out a random authenticity check

So the consensus is it's not the mod, it's the backup. I don't have NCAA as I was waiting for Madden, but I anticipate the same problem.

I don't mind buying the retail of Madden, just want to make sure I can play it online with a modchip (Magic 2) without a prob.

You will never know about Madden until it comes out. Since it is a bigger game than NCAA, they can put about 100 checks in there or more and they could possibly put a mod detection on Madden. Nobody knows, until Aug. 12.

Originally posted by smackme
You will never know about Madden until it comes out. Since it is a bigger game than NCAA, they can put about 100 checks in there or more and they could possibly put a mod detection on Madden. Nobody knows, until Aug. 12.

Ya know smackme I have to agree with you on that one

I hope they still follow the ncaa 2004 setup who really knows
(but we'll find out in about 3 and 1/2 weeks ;))

Originally posted by smackme
You will never know about Madden until it comes out. Since it is a bigger game than NCAA, they can put about 100 checks in there or more and they could possibly put a mod detection on Madden. Nobody knows, until Aug. 12.

That's true, I guess I assumed the same level of protection on all their games for 2004...that would suck

I hope they keep it the same way it is now or take the things off completely. But, if it is the same atleast we already know some solutions.

Why would they put multiple checks in? You need the original to get online to begin with, so do you really think Sony cares? It means to get online you need the original. They dont care if you swap it with a backup after you get online, as it means you still have the original!

Originally posted by RedHerring24
Why would they put multiple checks in? You need the original to get online to begin with, so do you really think Sony cares? It means to get online you need the original. They dont care if you swap it with a backup after you get online, as it means you still have the original!

In this case it wouldn't be sony that cares, but EA Sports

There might be some patches in the future to allow playing of the backups.

If there are more checks (or a checks at a later time) then this is more work for the patchers to fix. (so if a patcher fixes one line and doesnt fix another then you cant get on until someone figures this out)


For EA it still will still probably end up being a lossing battle though

Everquest has multiple checks.