Well some of us may know that Philips has a dual-layered burner in the works but Pioneer has also announced that it is working on a dual layer burner as well. Read about it here------> http://www.cdr-info.com/Sections/News/Details.asp?RelatedID=4206
For those who don't want to go to that site, I did a copy and paste of the article:

Pionneer to proceed with dual layer recording
Friday, 3 October 2003

Pioneer Corporation has proceeded to the development of dual layer recording on DVD-R discs.
The first measurements on the two layer DVD-R discs showed that the jitter for the fisrt layer is 9.34%, the reflectivity 17.3%, while the same measurements for the second layer were 8.08% and 19.5%, respectively. Playback compatibility with the current DVD players is expected to be high.

Although the limited information about the technology background, dual layer DVD recording is definitely a major step beyond and expected to boost the sales of DVD writers.

Hmmm dual layers, sound interesting. But then again, there's 8.4 disc coming out too. I wonder if we can reach 16.8 GB per DVD with dual layer and 8.4 DVD, that'll be totally awesome.

Umm the 8.4GB that you are referring to IS A DUAL-LAYERED DISC. That article that you read elsewhere is talking about a dual-layer burner being made by Philips which will increase the capacity from 4.7GB to 8.4GB. I still don't know if this will be done on regular DVD-R discs or if there will be special dual-layer blanks which will be comming out. Either way it's going to be pricey for a while.

Actually I recall reading somewhere that there is also a company working on doubling the capacity of current DVD's so ~8.4GB on a single layer. Pretty sure that they were able to do it without breaking compatibility to. This was for pressed discs though, not burnt.

Originally posted by jesterrace777
Umm the 8.4GB that you are referring to IS A DUAL-LAYERED DISC. That article that you read elsewhere is talking about a dual-layer burner being made by Philips which will increase the capacity from 4.7GB to 8.4GB. I still don't know if this will be done on regular DVD-R discs or if there will be special dual-layer blanks which will be comming out. Either way it's going to be pricey for a while.

It will of course require new media with two recording layers. The technology for dual layer DVD+R is explained pretty good in this PDF (http://www.research.philips.com/Assets/Downloadablefile/dual-layer_dvdr-2617.pdf).

Originally posted by celtic_druid
Actually I recall reading somewhere that there is also a company working on doubling the capacity of current DVD's so ~8.4GB on a single layer. Pretty sure that they were able to do it without breaking compatibility to. This was for pressed discs though, not burnt.

Impossible to achieve without breaking compatibility as it would be completely out of the DVD specifications.

i believe sony have looked at the philips idea, for plus r and cant seem to justify manufacture prices (philips wont put it to pc markei alone), pioneer are the ones to watch but even thier minus r idea will probably be blown away with bluray in 05

Well maybe Sony (or rather Sony Pictures) is a bit worried about the piracy aspect of dual layer recordable DVDs?
There are however plenty of manufacturers that surely will bring dual layer DVD+R drives and media to the market when the specifications are ready.

As for Pioneer's dual layer DVD-R there are really no details about it yet so I doubt it will be ready before the DVD+R ones. As for Blu-ray drives it will probably take ~5 years before they will be affordable.

They already have dual layer writers, how else could they make dvd9?

who are these manufacturers???? imho none of the big boys will touch a single dual layer format unless its thier own. (they`ve been caught out once with single layer plus format only).
no details from pioneer because they will take it to market themselves.
without lying in pdf docs.
ie. plus format most popular-------lie
plus format most compatable------lie

Either way dual layered burners are going to be pricey for quite a while. I would imagine that it would be 2006 at least before the burners or the media will be reasonably priced.

yeah, dual layered burner would of course be a little pricey but guess what, that is what will make all those regular 4.7GB dvd-r burner reduce their price greatly hehe :Ds... probably down to lowest 59 dollars.. if that's the case :Ds...

Originally posted by aaronjon
who are these manufacturers???? imho none of the big boys will touch a single dual layer format unless its thier own. (they`ve been caught out once with single layer plus format only).

I don't know where you get your ideas from but of course everyone making DVD writers will include support for dual layer DVD+Rs when the technology is ready (well except possibly Panasonic and Toshiba). I will not even bother to comment the rest of your message as it just ends up in another of those DVD+R vs. DVD-R threads...

Originally posted by handyguy
They already have dual layer writers, how else could they make dvd9?

They don't use dual layer DVD writers. The Dual layer writers that do exist are too expensive for even the movie studios effectively use. Besides that they're all still in the prototype\research stage.

DVD9 movies are pressed, they are not burned. Most movie studios use DLT tape drives to store the master image when creating DVD discs.

Originally posted by jsl
I don't know where you get your ideas from but of course everyone making DVD writers will include support for dual layer DVD+Rs when the technology is ready (well except possibly Panasonic and Toshiba). I will not even bother to comment the rest of your message as it just ends up in another of those DVD+R vs. DVD-R threads...

i`m not trying to put the plus format down, but the phlips company. they give out press releases full of lies, about thier plus format being the bees knees and dupe people every time.
WHY dont they along with the rest of the major manufacturers embrace dual formats???? (even pioneer are -/+ and ram reading with the 107d).
the dual layer format may not be possible finacially to combine both formats plus and minus, in one writer, and compete with blu-ray.
all that is being said by both -/+ camps at the moment is each can be done,
and if i had a choice of a philips or pioneer drive, i know which one i`d choose.

I've got to agree that I would go with Pioneer over the Philips drive. Philips products have been pretty shoddy quality as of late. Now if Sony or Plextor had a similar drive comming out then that would be a different story but as of right now Philips and Pioneer are the only two that I have heard are throwing in thier bids on these new dual-layer burners.

Press Release
http://www.pioneer.co.jp/press/release125.html

Its a plus on the dual layer disk no matter who brings them out, yes they will be a totaly new disk then on the bad side of things got to go though the price being high again and all the normal bull of which disk works and the normal disk that works then they go and change the dye just to p you off.

Philips always seems to be the first to come out with something new, But everyone makes it better..so I wouldnt get anything philips makes. But anyway thanks jester, for the post, its very interesting.

Actually Mr.Snatcher this post is about Pioneer's dual-layer burner and not the Philips. I was simply claiming that I would much rather own the one that Pioneer will be putting out than the one that Philips will be putting out. ;)

Originally posted by jesterrace777
Actually Mr.Snatcher this post is about Pioneer's dual-layer burner and not the Philips. I was simply claiming that I would much rather own the one that Pioneer will be putting out than the one that Philips will be putting out. ;)

I know, was only saying philips suck in my opinion. The interseting thing was about the pioneer, because its at least it will probably work. Since its pioneer it has my interest, if it was just philips, I wouldn't even bother looking into it.

Oh okay. I thought you might be confusing this with the Philips one that is coming out next year (not sure on a release date on the Pioneer yet but it shouldn't be too far away from the Philips). I agree that Philips products have been substandard these last few years.

how about a 50gig dual layer blue laser set top box from panny/jvc :-
http://www.cdr-info.com/Sections/News/Details.asp?RelatedID=4215

damn, 50 gigs! I will never be able to afford that. http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0903/traurig/sad-smiley-044.gif