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Old Jul 13, 2002, 11:34 AM
littlejack littlejack is offline
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Coventry, UK
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a copyright lawyer who USED to work for Sony - don't suppose he was one of the people who released the info on chipping the ps2 was he?
Old Jul 13, 2002, 06:41 PM
handyguy handyguy is offline
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Monterey, Calif
Posts: 9,647

I think Sony tries to get the people who chip to work for THEM.
Old Jul 13, 2002, 07:05 PM
CousinFizz CousinFizz is offline
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 3,936

Ash... so what your lawyer friend said was that backups are legal even without an original? Since they are not installed in a computer as such? That's a new twist to all of this if that indeed is what you mean... cya...
Old Jul 14, 2002, 01:59 AM
Supleh2 Supleh2 is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: GA
Posts: 332

Ash is the only one that can dispute this, as he says his friend is a copyright lawyer.
There is no loop hole. You said, what if the game is used and you back it up? You know that used game is, the ORIGINAL GAME, the thing you are required by law to own if you have a backup. As for saying a game got cracked/became unplayable/destroyed, what does that mean? You can't have a backup. Because the average person will throw away a cracked/unplayable/partially destroyed game. When you throw it away you give up your rights to ownership and are legally not allowed to own a backup. What u got to say Ash?
Old Jul 14, 2002, 03:20 AM
ashVID ashVID is offline
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,099

I talked to him today. He worked for Sony getting all their stuff ready for the original Playstation launch. Apparently there are hundreds of papers that must be filed all over the world. He now works for the US government in the customs department. You wouldnt BELIEVE the stuff he says goes on (anyone want some Cuban cigars? LOL). Go back and read my past posts on these threads. They are dead on. Because games are not technically "installed" or legally considered intellectual property they fall under the same copyright laws as music CDs and movies. When you own an original of the latter two you are, by US law, allowed to make a copy. This COPY, assuming you have the original takes on the legal properties of the original provided you do not sell it (more about that later). Under the legal term "fair use" you may allow your friends/family/etc. to borrow your original and or back-up ad infinitum. This is indisputable US law, no grey area here at all. That person could then in theory make a back-up of the back-up since in fact it is legally tied to the original, in this case by one degree of seperation. This is where the law is open to interpretation. One thing is for certain, it is NOT illegal to make a copy of a copy and let a friend borrow it HOWEVER, US law does not provide specific provision for such. So it can be argued and most likely would be successful in any court that this forum is a community of friends sharing/trading their legal back-ups as protected under fair use (we would have to prove that at least one person had a copy of every original which is most likely a safe bet). Did anyone fear getting busted for making a compilation tape and giving it to a friend in 1979? Same laws, same concept. Selling is a different matter. If you are in fact selling a service it is 100% legal HOWEVER, my friend said that a court might easily find that you had sufficient reason to believe that they did not own the originals, thus, you have facilitated a copyright violation. So, until the laws change, trade all you want and if you are selling make sure you are on a dont ask dont tell basis.. LOL He also said that many large companies have been hesitant to use copy protection on new CDs for fear of legal action from some large consumer advocate groups. Interesting...

ash =o)
Old Jul 14, 2002, 10:35 AM
handyguy handyguy is offline
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Monterey, Calif
Posts: 9,647

"Three rival games makers have teamed up to file a joint lawsuit against Yahoo, alleging that the Web portal company has knowingly aided the sale of illegal and counterfeit video games on its Internet auction site.
""The lawsuit seeks an injunction against Yahoo to prevent the auction or sale of counterfeit games and illegal devices designed to circumvent copyright protection," Brown said in a phone interview Tuesday. He drew attention to one particular set of devices known as mod chips which are also singled out in the lawsuit. "Mod chips are for sale on Yahoo where they're blatantly promoted as a device to get around copyright protection," he said."

"Isn't it legal to copy video & computer games as a backup as long as you own a legitimate copy?

U.S. Copyright laws permit making a "backup" copy of computer programs for archival purposes. However, the right to make backup copies of computer programs for archival purposes, as embodied in 17 U.S.C. Section 117(2), does not in any way authorize the owner of a copy of a video or computer game to post or download a copy of that game to or from the Internet. Section 117(2) only gives the owner of the copy a right to make an archival copy of the actual copy that he/she legally possesses, not to make a copy of the ROM that someone else legally possesses, nor to post an archival copy of his/her original copy for distribution. Also, there is not an unfettered right to sell "backup" copies. In fact, Section 117 is quite explicit in stating that any archival copy prepared under Section 117(2) can only be transferred to another person if, and only if: A) The original copy is also transferred, and only with the authorization of the copyright owner, and B) The transfer is part of the sale of all rights in the program."
(What is the IDSA?
Formed in April 1994, the Interactive Digital Software Association (IDSA) is the U.S. trade association exclusively dedicated to serving the business and public affairs needs of companies that publish video and computer games for video game consoles (such as Nintendo 64, Sega Saturn, and PlayStation), personal computers, and the Internet.)

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