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  #13  
Old Feb 26, 2002, 02:18 AM
mousey mousey is offline
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you say your having macrovision problems with vcd but it can't be vcd as macrovision is a licensed copyprotection that was not part of the vcd standard. no vcd has macrovision or region coding (these both apply to dvd).

if the picture is "rolling" off the screen but is in colour, then the problem is that you are trying to play a 60hz picture through a 50hz vcr or tv.

if you have an ntsc compatable vcr, chances are it's only for playback, not recording.

if you are recording from your dvd player to vcr you need to force the output to pal 50hz (normally in the setup or a switch on the back of the unit) if you are using a pc with tv out or an mpeg decoder card, then again you need to set the output as stated above).

mousey
  #14  
Old Feb 26, 2002, 01:30 PM
strandville strandville is offline
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When I record black hawk the picture is both black and white and rolling the same as recording dvd with macro ,I agree with you that the vcd may not have macro protection but is it possible the dvd player or the vcr are applying macro
  #15  
Old Feb 26, 2002, 02:34 PM
mousey mousey is offline
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from what you describe above, the problem is the ntsc to pal process. not macrovision.

you have a screener vcd recorded in ntsc (national television standards council used by the us and japan) and you are trying to record onto a pal (phase alternating line format as used in the uk). the picture format between the two is very different.

vcd in ntsc comprises of a 352x240 resolution and has 29 frames per second (approx) with a refresh rate of 60hz.

vcd in pal has a res of 352x288 and 25 frames per second and a refresh of 50hz.

the picture roles because of the refresh and is black and white because of the difference in scan line numbers (if i remember correctly).

the way to combat this is to force the dvd player to output the same format as your vcr/tv supports for recording. if you force an ntsc movie to pal, you almost always get some visable pausing when the picture pans across the screen as a result.

the whole part about macrovision is that the "company" macrovision started licensing its copy protection system back in about 1986. before this, you could hire tapes from your local rental store and simply have two vcr's connect by the rf lead or the scart sockets to do tape to tape.

almost all vcr's produced later started to be affected by macrovision because they used automatic gain control when you record. macrovision inserts quick bursts of bright or dark information that is not displayed in the normal viewable part of the picture.

vcr's recording this signal will think that the spikes are due to poor tapes and try to adjust, so you get the flashing light and dark picture.

hope that clears things up. sorry to go on

mousey
  #16  
Old Feb 26, 2002, 04:03 PM
strandville strandville is offline
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first just let me appologise to Action Ocelot sorry m8 for jumping in on your post but i've asked this question a number of times and got no reply maybe my name or something . Mousey thanks for the reply and your not going on ,your answer 's actually very informative but slightly lacking if you don't mind me saying how do I force the dvd player to output the same format as the vcr/tv ? also I have tried using nero to convert the vcd to pal but it still wouldn't copy to vcr
  #17  
Old Feb 26, 2002, 05:06 PM
mousey mousey is offline
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hi strandville

apologies to all for any highjacking or long winded explanations

when i said force your player to output the same as your tv/vcr, i was refering to a comment i made further up the post.

most standalone dvd players have an option to set the video output to match what your tv can accept (i have a pioneer dv-717 that has a switch on the back that can be set to pal/auto/ntsc). a lot of the more modern dvd players have a menu called setup or something similat that will allow you to set pal/ntsc/auto/pseudo pal or pal60 (the last 2 are the same it. this setting would allow you to watch a region 1 ntsc dvd on a pal tv that accepts a pal signal at 60hz).

if you use the last option, you will not be able to record the picture as it will have a vertical roll on it when you watch the vcr.

some dvd players that are sold in the uk have "secret" menus that you need to enter to make the change from one picture type to another, it really depends on the make and model. (my other dvd player is an amoisonic player which lets me set the changes straight from the setup menu).

i am assuming you are in the uk and experiencing probs with ntsc vcd's. so you will have to check up on your make/model and see how you change the output to only be pal at 50hz. (you might not want to leave it like this for general viewing as most players are pretty poor at doing the conversion with out a slight hicup every second when the picture pans left or right).

if you are trying to output the picture from a pc, then you will be using something like either a hollywood+ card or a video card with tv out. for cards like the hollywood+ (creative dxr-3 etc) you find the output settings under the config tab that is part of the softwar eplayer that came with the card.

for a vid card with tv out you just go to display settings and find the relevant tab that lets you control the tv output.

for the uk you want pal i.

if you are using a pc, remember that you may have to take the audio from the sound card.

hope things are getting clearer.

mousey
  #18  
Old Feb 26, 2002, 05:12 PM
mousey mousey is offline
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oops, almost forgot. the vcd burning in nero wont work because your trying to burn a pal vcd with an ntsc source. you have to re-encode the entire movie to do this. i think it is a bit beyond nero to transcode from the 29.97fps ntsc 352x240 to 25fps pal 352x288.

if it could do this it would take a long time. even using a dedicated mpeg prog like tmpgenc will take a good few hours to recode an entire movie and the resulting mpeg would look a lot worse that the original because you will be recompressing a compressed source.

much better to keep it in the original format and make the dvd player work the way it should.

mousey
 

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